March 2, 2008

Genetic Analysis for Peter Thomas Hohl/Hull Descendants

When comparing traditional genealogy for Peter Thomas Hohl (herein after designated as “Hull”) and the results for genetic genealogy donors, a situation exists where there is evidence of seven lineages and seven genetic donors and two donors having genetic matches independent of the others. Conversely there is genetic evidence among five donors that suggests each shares a common ancestor, but classical documentation is missing to support this anomaly. The crux of the issue has been the acceptance of a dichotomy between the two situations. It is not a matter of there being one to the exclusion of the other, but is an issue defined by familial descent and genetic descent.

Many opinions have evolved significantly on this issue since Hull DNA Research (HDR) received the first sampler kit in 2002 from an alleged descendant of Peter Thomas Hull. Approximately 6 months later another descendant submitted a sampler kit with paper genealogy also alleging to be a descendant of Peter Thomas Hull. This enigma left HDR with a situation of paper genealogy linkage without genetic genealogy matching.

By 2007 there were a total of six sampler kits submitted, five alleging by their paper genealogy to be descended from Peter Thomas Hull, except for one donor whose oldest know ancestor was an Adam Hull. Four of the six donors had genetic matches with qualifying characteristics for genetic descent, while two others with familial descent by paper genealogy had too many non-matching markers to be genetically related to the other four donors.

To juxtapose the seven genealogies reveals they share the same surname, which is one of the qualifying factors for a genetic kinship. Each has paper genealogy indicating familial descent; their ancestors were from the same places and times, thus increasing the likelihood even further.  All seven donors have identifiable persons to whom they are related, but there still exists a missing link to support both groups sharing a common ancestor to Peter Thomas Hull.

As some of you may recall, HDR, solicited a reward for any male Hull, allegedly related to Peter Thomas Hull, to assist us in determining which genetic signature was likely his. That person exists in Kit #108590. His matching genetic markers increased the probability that five matching genetic signatures likely resemble the genetic coat of arms for Peter Thomas Hull. The characteristics of these results in our judgment meet the requirements which establish the genetic signature for this unique Hull family.

The source of this perplexing situation, classical genealogy family linkage but not DNA matching could be ascribed to congeniality and the adoptive nature of Peter Thomas Hull. It is probable that either group alleging to be descendants of this congenial man could be potentially the result of a non-paternal event (NPE). When general genealogical DNA testing began slightly 8 years ago, an NPE was considered almost synonymous with illegitimacy. Considerable study since that time clearly indicates that NPE status has occurred for many reasons. There could be illegitimacy, but there also are other causes.

The natural mother could die in child birth, and the child would go to live with an aunt or uncle or cousin with a different surname. The child’s father died, and the mother remarried, with the child taking on the new husband’s surname. In Scotland, for instance, there have been many cases in which a husband simply takes his wife's name. Beyond all these examples, the reason for an NPE simply may be indeterminate.

Some in the genealogical community feel strongly that a person who is not a genetic descendant cannot be a member of the family. Others have argued that DNA doesn’t matter; if the documentation is there the DNA must be wrong. Both these arguments were advanced early and often in genealogical discussions. And both these positions often but not always amounted to declarations of mutual exclusivity.

On the other hand, some would argue that the mutual exclusivity premise is a false premise. Surely, if one has been a part of a particular family’s history and heritage, who are we to deny the reality of that family engagement or who are we to say that the geneticists have it wrong? In a case of familial identification and differing DNA information, there is still that living, breathing, real-life person who has all the richness of the familial relationship and the genetic relatedness revealed by the DNA.

Purportedly, classical genealogy can define relatedness by saying it is so, but in genetic genealogy marker data is the definitive expression in terms of finding the most likely pedigrees connecting all identical, or near identical, characteristics proving a relationship exists or existed.

Herein is potentially an acrimonious situation which has scientifically and realistically challenged old assumptions that are giving in to new genetic genealogy facts. Based on the current genetic genealogy results, the HDR identifies HDR #108590, HDR #2632, HDR #4202, HDR #5684 and HDR #14913 to be the probable genetic descendant of Peter Thomas Hull.

This group has matching Y-STR haplotypes, which (1) share a Most Recent Common Ancestor; (2) have a near modal unique family haplotype (coat of arms); (3) show evidence of the same genetic signature (haplotype), finally, (4) are supported by other traditional and genetic genealogy characteristics.

Recommendations for the above group would be for each participant to upgrade to 37 markers and do the SNP, or Deep sub-clade test. There never are too many donors for a family line. More clues results in solving mysteries.

It is not at all certain where the familial/genetic disconnect occurs in the other group. Using the genetic signature databases, such as Y-Base and Y-Search, is highly encouraged. Locating a different surname that matches with the group genetic signature could be the clue for solving the mystery.

The German-speaking area of Europe has always been a crossroad of various ethnic and cultural groups throughout history. There is a new Germany DNA Project which would like to collect and analyze all of the different genetic contributions of all people whose native language was at some point in the past, or is in the present, German.

Thus, everyone whose native language is now German, as well as everyone who can trace, or strongly suspects this, or if his male patrilineal or his/her matrilineal line of descent relates to an ancestor who lived in the German speaking areas, or whose native language was German, is cordially invited to join this project.

To join the project, both the Y-DNA & mt-DNA component, you may go directly to the project by clicking here: and then in the upper left hand corner click on: “Request to Join this Group” and then enter your FTDNA Login and PW.
 

If you have been tested by FTDNA, you may also navigate to your personal account page at FTDNA and click on the blue JOIN group button in the upper left banner section; then select the Germany Project.

Recently the above question was posed by a member of Hull DNA Research while another member wanted to know:

“Have they arrived at a point with DNA testing where they can actually narrow down the Native American ancestry to a specific tribal connection, assuming it isn't mixed to a point it is no longer unique?”

The answer is maybe and no, respectively. It is my impression the so-called tribal tests have a long way to go and should be considered recreational. Currently the DNA testing company’s achievement levels for Native American testing are:

The Y-DNA 12 marker test will show Native American ancestry in the comparison of the results to the database of 12 marker samples that have been SNP tested.  If a person is of Native American ancestry on their patrilineal side (father to fathers), they will belong to haplogroup Q3 (most often) and a smaller percentage will belong to C3.  The inclusion in other haplogroups, like R1b, or I, rules Native American ancestry patrilineally.

For mtDNA the haplogroup is again the indicator of Native American ancestry. The haplogroups that indicate Native American ancestry matrilineally (mother to mothers) are A, B, C, D and in some very rare cases X. There appears to be one line of X that may indicate Native American origin. Haplogroup Q3 and C3 in a small percentage for yDNA and A, B, C or D for mtDNA, indicate Native American ancestry.

The haplogroups really are the results that indicate whether or not the individual is of Native American ancestry. Any additional marker upgrades play the same role as they would do for ancestral haplotype, which are useful for helping determine how recently a common ancestor existed.  In any case, additional markers will not determine a possible Native American tribe.

As previously mentioned, on the mitochondrial DNA, there are a total of five different "haplotypes" … which are increasingly called "Native American markers," and are believed to be a genetic signature of the founding ancestors. As for the Y-chromosome, there are two primary lineages or "haplogroups" that are seen in modern Native American groups.

Populations migrated from Asia to inhabit North, South and Central America so “Native American markers” are not found solely among Native Americans. While they occur more frequently among Native Americans, they are also found in people in other parts of the world.

Another problem with tying markers to Native American identity is that mtDNA and yDNA marker testing show only one line of ancestry each. Therefore, Native American ancestors on other lines are invisible.

Kim TallBear, Ph.D of Red National Counseling concludes that "Native American markers" may tell something about an individual’s biological descent along a few ancestral lines over archaeological time. Many individuals around the world no doubt possess markers and yet have no close biological, social or cultural attachment to a living tribe. In contrast, individuals with strong connections might not have the markers because their American Indian ancestors are not on the lines of descent covered by the tests. DNA testing fails to provide definitive answers on either biological or cultural connections to a tribe or Native American ancestry.

My position is that testing companies lure the unknowing with an implied promise that a haplogroup determination will provide a personal connection to the distant, but not too distant, past, i.e., ancestral tribes that are recent enough to have group names. This is similar to a personal association to Vikings, which comes to mind as one of the popular candidates, and the Picts are beginning to catch on as well.

There may be a statistical connection with a greater or lesser probability, but the only provable connection anyone has, or will ever have, is to the haplotype and the common ancestors of an entire clade, which is what we are doing now. Anything else is nonsense.

Although, I suppose if anyone who can afford an IPod or a Blackberry, can likely afford to fritter away money to see if they have a smidge of Native American ancestry. But, it probably will not be enough to qualify for a stipend from one of the casinos.

Individuals who participate in Hull DNA Research establish their levels of privacy when they returned their sampler kit to Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) by stating “No” on their release form. By doing so, they hamstring the Hull DNA Research administrators in NOT being able to assist them in matching their results and other helpful purposes that comes with a project administrator’s turf.

If you want complete privacy, you should not join a project, but simply order and pay for the testing outside of the project; thereby losing all of the special pricing available only through DNA projects. That way, your identity and results are known only to you (and to FTDNA, obviously).

If you join Hull DNA Research, we know who you are (i.e., have access to your full name and contact information), but only your test data, lineage, and surname — not your given name(s) — will be placed in public view on the project's web sites.  I will NOT reveal your identity to anyone, not even to other project members or administrators.  That doesn't prevent you from revealing yourself, just that neither FTDNA nor I will do it.

If you sign the release that comes with your kit, your name and email address will be shared with others at FTDNA whose results match yours (and vice versa), but your name and email address will still not be displayed at the project web sites nor be released by the project administrator, without your permission.  You also have the option of restricting match sharing to just the members of your surname project, rather than with everyone else tested at FTDNA, the latter of which is obviously a much larger database.  Please note that the FTDNA database is not searchable or browsable, not even by project administrators, much less by the general public, which has NO access to the database.

If you want to get the most from your testing, then share the most, that is:  join a project, sign the release, remove the sharing restriction (via the checkbox at your member page), and upload your results to Ysearch.

Lastly, and speaking personally, I frankly do not see the need for DNA testing privacy.  You should be much more concerned about someone knowing your Social Security number or reading your bank account number off of your checks or your credit card numbers off your sales slips.  Most people, I am sure would much rather someone knew their haplotype than their weight!

The DNA of all humans is virtually identical and is the reason we have five fingers and toes, two legs, arms, ears, eyes and one nose.  It determines where each of these is placed or connected to our body and where our vital organs are placed.

The very slight differences in our DNA determine the slight differences we see in each other, for example if we are short, tall, the color of our eyes and hair, etc. We use these slight differences to tell one another apart, and we use the slight differences in our DNA to tell us to which family groups we belong.

There are three basic types of DNA

Two of them are located within the nucleus of our cells:

• Autosomal DNA -- 22 pairs of rope-like chromosomes. This comes from both parents.
• Y-chromosome DNA -- 1/2 of the 23rd pair of chromosomes. This is passed from a father to his son.
• Mitochondrial DNA, the third, is located outside the cell's nucleus – it comes only from the mother and is passed to her children.

We inherit random portions of autosomal DNA from both of our parents whereas the yDNA and mtDNA come from only one parent.

In traditional genealogy research, we look for something unique that can be used to define or identify an ancestor. A box of papers mixed together in a shoebox tucked away in a closet is meaningless without a name or place or some other piece of information that we can use to help us in our research. DNA is the same way. We need to be able to identify which parent contributed it if it is to be used to trace ancestry.

Autosomal DNA is like the pieces of papers in the shoebox -- it has been randomly mixed up and we can't tell which parent contributed it. It is of no use in genealogical work. On the other hand, mtDNA does not share anything with the father's DNA, so it represents the mother's lineage. The yDNA does not share anything with the mother's DNA and it represents the father's line. The fact that these are passed unchanged from parent to child makes them ideal for tracing ancestry.

The slight changes which occur when a mistake is made in copying the DNA from parent to child become the distinguishing characteristics for family branches. These are referred to as mutations. Unfortunately, mtDNA changes too slowly to provide very much useful data for tracking recent ancestors. It is better suited to researching ancient ancestral ties. However, yDNA changes more rapidly and has become the standard vehicle for genealogical DNA research.

Regarding yDNA, if you have high matches, such as 64/67, within the same SNP-test confirmed haplogroup, you should contact these people, and ask them about where and when their ancestors along these lines of descent lived. There is a high chance you will find a connection showing that you are relatives, e.g., your respective ancestors lived in the same geographic region in the same time period.

As for mtDNA, if you have a match on both HVR1 and HVR2, then both individuals should have the complete mitochondrial sequence tested. If your complete mitochondrial sequences are identical, then this is about equivalent to a 37/37 match on yDNA, i.e., both of you share a common ancestor within the last 300-500 years.

If you have any concerns or comments about the information on this page, please send an email to: hull.genetic.genealogy@gmail.com/. If you find a broken link, please let us know.